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Konrádnak beszóltak az olvasók. Pontosabban reklamáltak bizonyos helyesírási lazaságok miatt. Szerintem egyébként igazságtalan éppen Konrádon leverni valamennyi bűnt, amit a hazai bloggerek (természetesen beleértve engem is) követnek el a magyar nyelv ellen. Szerintem az Onlinemarketing blog messze a jobbak közé tartozik, általában rendben vannak a szövegei, csak ritkán siklik féke egy-egy mondat. Egyébként meggyőződésem, hogy a bloggerek általában nem rosszabbak a "profi"
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Kedves Kelt!
Az emberi butaság végtelen a hülyeség ragályos! A neten valóban gátlástalanul tobzódnak az írástudatlanok.
Három sorában sikerült két egymással tökéletesen nem összefüggő dolgot összemosnia. Ennyit a gondolatiságról és a kifejezés pontosságáról. Nyelvtani helyességgel le lehet írni ostobaságot és okosságot is, és fordítva. Amit szabad azt lehet, ha Ön szerint ez a szabadság. Meggyőződésem, hogy aki nem bírja szabatosan használni az általa választott kifejezési eszközt, mindenekelőtt magát alázza meg kisebb, nagyobb nyilvánosság előtt.
kiválóüdvbp
Kedves Pollner!
Köszönöm. Ne fáradjon, ivántól megkapom elérhetőségét!
szép napot BP
@fuerto
Szerintem azon az alapon, hogy az övé is a nyelv. Persze nyelvfelfogása válogatja, az általam preferált szerint senkit nem lehet "hazaküldeni" a nyelvből.
A szabadság pedig legutoljára még azt jelentette, hogy az ostobaság ugyanolyan joggal jelenhet meg, mint a csillogó, gyönyörű mondatok.
fuerto: Persze. Kapni mailcím - küldeni telefonszám.
Kedveseim!
Ha a közlés eszköze a nyelv, (akkor ne beszéljetek mellé) tanulható, ha nem tudsz helyesen írni, akkor milyen alapon használod? Akkor válassz más eszközt. Filmezz, beszélj, rajzolj, hátha valamelyikkel elbírsz! Az írástudatlanok írásainál nincs nagyobb butaság és gonoszság. Az emberi gondolat közlése ezen a hordozón is szabad, de a szabadság nem azonos az ostobaság megnyilvánulásával.
Aki tehát nem tud arabusul, ne írjon arabusul!
A minőség mércéje még véletlenül sem a mennyiség!
Kedves ZaZie! kérlek olvasd el első mondatod és próbáld meg értelmezni! Ragaszkodj továbbra is elemi jogodhoz, Te gátlástalanul leírhatsz hülyeséget, anonim saját magadnak, de akkor miért közlöd?
Kedves Pollner, ha megengedi, felhívom!
A nyelvtani szabályok maximális betartásával írt - valóságnak nem megfelelő tartalmú- szöveg megjelentetése nagyobb hiba, mint az igazságot, valóságot hűen tükröző, de egy-egy nyelvtani hibát tartalmazó cikk megjelentetése. Míg egy megjelentetett szöveget korrekturával - nyelvtani szempontból- hibátlanná lehet tenni,a leírt valótlanságot az adott cikkben nem lehet nyelvtani szabályok betartásával valósággá átformálni. Ezért a valóságot lehetőség szerint nyelvtanilag megfelelő formában kell megfogalmazni, leírni és megjeleníteni.
@Mr JP
Valahol érteni, hogy miért keverik össze az irodalmi igényességű írást és az élőbeszédre sokkal jobban hasonlító blogos, kommentes beszélgetést a helyesírásfétissel megvert kommentelők. Ugyanakkor a trollkodás akkor is trollkodás marad, ha a magaskultúra és az anyanyelv, az édes nevében követték el.
@pollner
"Torzítja az internet a nyelvet?"
Tudom, hogy költői kérdés, de ha már apropót adtál. :) A nyelv nem a beszélőkön kívül létezik, hanem közöttük/általuk. Elromlani úgy tud, ha nem beszélik.
(Pár hete még azt írtam volna, hogy tipikus elromlott nyelv a latin vagy a sumér. A Laudator blog - http://laudator.blog.hu/ - miatt az előbbivel kapcsolatban elbizonytalanodtam.)
Hadd kezdjek egy idézettel:
"Lehet, hogy túl messzire vezető konzekvencia, de úgy vélem: akit nem követeli meg mind magától, mind mástól (vagy bocsánatosnak tartja) a helyesírás szabályainak betartását, az az élet egyéb (írott avagy íratlan) szabályait is könnyű szívvel áthágja..." - ms_mester.
Innen ollóztam a kommentjeit ennek a drága úrnak:
http://bkvfigyelo.blog.hu/2008/08/31/az_a_k_rva_diakigazolvany#comments
Az ilyen fasiszta állatokkal tele van a net. Attól lesz valaki bűnöző, hogy épp nem olvassa át 28x, hogy a nyelvtani helyesírás szabályinak megfeleően írt-e le valamit? Az ilyeneket ki kéne tenni az állatkertbe a sziklához, hogy dobálhassák az emberek száraz kenyérrel.
Szerintem egyszerűen azért így írják le mert egyszerűbb, gyorsabb és mindenki megérti (tisztelet a kivételnek, akik ha nem látnak egy vesszőt nem tudják értelmezni a mondatot).
Én szeretem, ha egy szöveg rendben van, vannak benne írásjelek, alany az állítmánnyal egyeztetve, stb. De középkorú olvasószerkesztők-korrektorok a megmondhatói, hogy az AKADÉMIA milyen következetességgel változtatgatja a helyesírási szabályokat: egybe-kötőjellel-különírás kétévente változtatva, mamut-mammut-mammmmmmut - egy-két-sok m-betűvel írva, stb. Szóval nem elég egyszer megtanulni helyesen írni. Mindig új helyesírási verziókat kell(ene) installálni az agyunkban. De ugyan minek?
Én teljes mértékben ragaszkodom a slendriánság és a pontatlan helyesírás jogához, ha a blogomról van szó. Az is igaz, hogy én magamat szórakoztatom anonim módon.
Ha arccal és névvel próbálkoznék, biztos, hogy jobban meggondolnék egy-egy szóösszetételt és természetesen a megnyilatkozás stílusát is.
Egy kicsit tehát érthető, hogy Konrádtól miért várnak el többet, mint a mezei bloggerektől, hiszen ő nagyrészt ön-pr-t (bocsi!) folytat, a saját arcát, szakmaiságát mellétéve.
Persze az is igaz, hogy nem a legkulturáltabb társalgási forma mások hibáinak kipellenérezése. Gyakran beszólnak nekem is, de úgy vagyok vele, hogy az ilyen komment alapvetően a kommentálóról állít ki bizonyítványt.
Kiegészítésként javasolhatnám a susside.blogter.hu blogomat, de belefáradtam a sabloncsiszolásba, és nem túl felhasználóbarát jelenleg. Itt van viszont egy hangfelvétel, Brachfeld Szigfrid előadásában a "Nehéz nyelv a magyar" című kabaréjelenet, amit jó szívvel ajánlok, hallgassátok meg :)
Konrád blogját majdnem rendszeresen olvasom, és azon a beszóláson,(mert szerintem az beszólás, ha helyesírási osztályzatot ad valaki) én is meglepődtem. Nem is vettem másnak, minthogy valaki személyében érintettnek érezte magát a tárgyban szereplő levél miatt, és jobb híján így akart visszalőni.
Az interneten fellelhető szövegeknek nagy hatása van, ha elfogadjuk hogy sokan és rendszeresen olvassák. Főleg akkor, ha a nyomtatott szöveg-online szöveg olvasási aránya az utóbbi javára jóval nagyobb. Az rögzül, amit gyakrabban látunk. Nem azt mondom, hogy romlik a nyelv, hanem a mondanivaló pontossága, a kifejezés árnyaltsága sérül. Ezt nem "nyelvtanozásnak" nevezném.
A kialakult, valamilyen szinten megfelelőnek mondható helyesen író készségem pedig tényleg romlott, mióta sok olyan szöveg kerül elém, amiben túlteng a nyelvhelyességi és nyelvtani hiba. Előfordul, hogy szólok, ez a fogadókészségen is múlik. Osztályozni viszont sosem osztályoztam.
Aki már részt vett valami nyomtatott anyag előkészítésében, az tudja, hogy hányszor át kell olvasni a szöveget.., és még mindig marad benne valami hiba. Amit már csak a nyomtatott formában veszünk észre.
Nekem nem sulykolták a nyelvtant, (vagy nem emlékszem rá, de sokat olvastam, és sok keresztrejtvényt fejtettem, ahol viszont nincs kecmec..)de észreveszem, ha valami nem stimmel. Akkor is ha én írtam, de csak akkor tűnik fel, amikor újra látom, mint olvasó.
Az is tény, hogy gépelni gyorsabban lehet, mint kézzel írni, ezért könnyebb az elütés, és kevesebb idő jut az önkontrollra közben, ami általában nem is tudatos. Sok tévesztés forrása lehet.
Érdekes (ez most jutott eszembe), hogy a számítástechnikai leíró/programozó nyelveknél (próbálok példát mondani: XML XHTML HTML PHP . izé,... :)mindenki elfogadja, hogy pontosnak kell lennie, vagyis azt, és úgy közölje, amit az átadó mondani akar vele. Ezt az elutasítókkal kapcsolatban írom.
Az pedig egy külön téma lehetne, hogy a fordítóprogramokat készítő programozók milyen alapból dolgoznak, és miket gondolhatnak közben :)
